Dr. Halee Fischer-Wright With MGMA

Intro: [00:00:02] Broadcasting live from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s time for Association Leadership Radio. Now here’s your host.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:19] Lee Kantor here another episode of Association Leadership Radio and this is going to be a good one. Today on the show, we have Dr. Halee Fischer-Wright with the Medical Group Management Association. Ama, welcome.

Dr. Halee Fischer-Wright: [00:00:34] Thank you, Lee. I appreciate the invite.

Lee Kantor: [00:00:37] Well, I’m so excited to learn what you’re up to. Tell us a little bit about MGMA. How are you serving folks?

Dr. Halee Fischer-Wright: [00:00:42] We are a 95 year old health care association where one of the institutional brands up there with the American Medical Association and American Hospital Association. But we represent the business of the medical practice as an organization. We focus on the care delivered in the medical practice and how to derive business from that. And we touch about half of the health care delivered in the United States.

Lee Kantor: [00:01:13] So 95 years ago, it probably looked a little different, huh?

Dr. Halee Fischer-Wright: [00:01:18] Yeah, 95 years ago when this organization was founded. And basically what ended up happening was a group of office managers got together in Wisconsin and decided to share best practices. So it was really more, I think, of a probably men getting together to have a fun weekend than anything else. And that has evolved over 95 years to one of the preeminent health care associations in the country.

Lee Kantor: [00:01:50] Now, since you’re kind of on the front lines of this health care situation today, can you share a little bit to the audience about some of the challenges that health care is facing? I find I interview business people every day, so health care comes up, but it’s not always health care. It’s health care insurance. You know, I think there’s a conflation between health care and health care insurance, and maybe you can share some of your thoughts on that.

Dr. Halee Fischer-Wright: [00:02:16] Absolutely. As I mentioned, M.G. May is the intersection between business and care. And so we’re when we talked to business leaders in the United States, we’re often talking about kind of high level leaders. Where we intersect is actually at that front line in care. And what we’ve seen over the past 2 to 3 years is really a almost transformation of how businesses practice. And by business I mean patient comes into a medical practice. We’ve seen a transformation as far as expectations, what kind of care they receive during COVID, the willingness of the patient to come in and receive care, especially after two years of a global pandemic. And then the other thing that we’re seeing on the business end is our staff, meaning our front line staff are back, office staff are exhausted, and our providers, meaning our physicians and allied health professionals are also exhausted. And so the irony in this entire situation is we’re about to go into this fall. We’ve already heard people talking about the triple demic of influenza RSV and COVID. We’re starting to see that impact on practices. They’re already overwhelmed, exhausted and at a breaking point.

Lee Kantor: [00:03:46] And then from the consumer standpoint, they’re just kind of there’s like a fatigue of. Absolutely. Of when is this going to end? You know, it doesn’t seem like there’s something happening, but it does seem like there’s just so much information and confusion out there. It’s just I think everybody’s frustrated.

Dr. Halee Fischer-Wright: [00:04:08] Agreed. And I think health care is not unique in that regard. But I think health care is probably as a result of the pandemic is really on the brink. And then add in, you mentioned the consumer’s role in all of this health care. We are just starting to see the impact of consumerism and consumer expectations on the patient care delivery model in health care. And we’re still struggling on what does a consumer friendly model at a time that our providers are exhausted and burnt out look like. And so having to navigate that, I mean, it really is a time of change in health care.

Lee Kantor: [00:04:55] And it’s one of those situations where other associations, you know, obviously touch a lot of different people. But your your world is life or death like this. The stakes are the highest that they can be in anything. So how do you handle that as a leader to kind of manage all of the. Who wins in this chaotic, complex environment that you’re leading?

Dr. Halee Fischer-Wright: [00:05:22] You know, that’s a great question, Leigh. I think the so it’s going to sound a little strange, but I think the best way to approach this is with rigorous empathy, meaning that there’s an awareness that the stakes are incredibly high because we’re navigating the business of health care, not health care itself. The it is the business consequences of life and death decisions, but we need to make sure that we’re providing some business practice so that we can provide that life saving care. And so it’s with the empathy of meeting people where they are, not where we think they should be, that I think leadership is the most effective right now. I think there’s an acknowledgment that not just the people in health care, but everybody is exhausted and burnt out at this point in time. And so asking people for their discretionary effort without clear reasons why and without a break, you know, we we use the metaphor of we’ve been pushing basically standing on the gas pedal for two years. And so we need to be able to pull our foot off a little and coast for a little and then push and kind of get back to a more normal cadence, if you will, in the business domain. But I really think it is about empathy at this point in time. What I talk about in my own organization is empathy with outcomes.

Lee Kantor: [00:06:59] And how do you deal with the burnout of some of the medical professionals that are out there that have just said, okay, you know, two years, I’m enough is enough. You know, when is enough enough? You know, and I’m just I’m done. And then how do you attract kind of this younger generation to take the baton and continue to fight the good fight?

Dr. Halee Fischer-Wright: [00:07:24] Yeah, I think there’s generational norms that both help and hinder in this. So our baby boomer physicians who are on the cusp of retirement prior to COVID. Covid has kind of pushed them into strongly considering retirement. So it’s not necessarily early retirement, but for those physician band between 60 and 70 that may have practiced for a couple extra years, they have been they really have chosen to retire probably a few years sooner than they would have the financial markets when the stock market was gaining 15 to 20% a year. That encouraged people to retire early. That has changed in the last six months. We’re not quite seeing the mass exodus of retirement that we were, let’s say a year ago. But the best way to look at how you navigate burnout is looking at what you can control. And a lot of burnout is based on lack of autonomy and lack of independence because we feel like things are being done to us or forcing the situations. So from our perspective at MDM, we’re really looking at where are the domains that we can decrease the burden of management operations that add to burnout to individuals. So I think there’s a huge role in health care where we acknowledge that there’s 15 to 30% waste in in health care. There’s a huge role in lessening the burden that is present that in the management operation domain, kind of all the regulatory and insurance and things like that, the duplication of things, having the right staff member do the right level of work. One, when we are effective at really looking at the workflows and management operations is when we see burnout lessen in medical practices.

Lee Kantor: [00:09:32] Now, are you seeing a trend in the right direction when it comes to using all of the data efficiently and effectively? In one hand, the data has to be protected, obviously from a privacy standpoint. And then you also want to balance that with making wise decisions with the information that’s out there that maybe can affect a community. How do you kind of thread that needle in terms of managing the data efficiently and effectively and helping your your practice managers, you know, not get burnt out by this overwhelm and the, you know, having to, like you said, kind of have duplication of efforts, you know, multiple times in. In a process.

Dr. Halee Fischer-Wright: [00:10:17] Yeah. So. So where the days of practice managers have long gone, we’re now looking at practice executives that have really complex responsibilities and a much higher level, much more sophisticated executives. So do we use data? Absolutely. And we use it in ways that I think are really innovative and far different than we would have five years ago. I think the business and clinical systems have significantly improved over the past couple of years. I think one of the cardinal sins, though, that we are still navigating is we like to add things, but we forget to subtract things. So we’ve added this tremendous muscle of data analytics and practice practice analytics, executive really executive oversight of complex business entities. What we have not done is strip out the things that no longer serve us. So on one hand, we’re really, really effective at looking at where we can apply data to really drive successful business outcomes. But in any practice, I think that we haven’t really been effective at culling out those things that don’t add value. And I think that’s probably our next business opportunity as an association.

Lee Kantor: [00:11:54] And that’s I mean, that’s across the board and a lot of association, a lot of industries. The pruning is the challenge, the, you know, getting rid of some of the status quo. You know, that’s that’s tricky politically.

Dr. Halee Fischer-Wright: [00:12:07] Absolutely. And, you know, it’s funny, I’ve been CEO for almost eight years, and I would say people fight much harder to keep things in place than to put new things in place. In other words, there’s much more of an emotional sense of loss to eradicate something that’s been longstanding than there is any type of emotional backlash to add new things to an organization. And I think that’s also true in almost every industry. It’s what it’s it’s what, you know, versus the unknown, right?

Lee Kantor: [00:12:44] I mean, that goes back to an individual human being. I think that’s how they feel as an individual, that their loss is more painful than, you know, a possible gain.

Dr. Halee Fischer-Wright: [00:12:55] Exactly.

Lee Kantor: [00:12:57] So now what is kind of the most rewarding part of you leading this mission? Is it is it something that, you know, when you started what you said eight years ago, is it how you imagine it to be?

Dr. Halee Fischer-Wright: [00:13:12] Oh, gosh, no. I don’t think any leader, if they’re really honest, says eight years later, it’s what you thought. You know, I went into medicine over 30 years ago because I wanted to make an impact and I practiced for almost 19 years. And what I figured out for myself as an individual is that that what I wanted to do is make impact on a larger scale. The thing that has attracted me to energy me and keeps me reengaged and re-energize is as time goes on, the scope and the amplitude of our impact continues to increase. And that’s when you ask me, Is it what I thought it would be eight years ago? No, I think the the level of game that we’re playing in right now is so much bigger than I ever imagined when I took this position. And in a great way that we’re making meaningful impact to little over half of health care. I mean, and that’s not me as an individual. That’s that’s the organization and all the members and all the individuals, our vendors, our entire communities are making that impact. And to me, that is somewhat awe inspiring. Sometimes I try not to think about the scale of what we’re doing because it becomes a little overwhelming.

Lee Kantor: [00:14:43] Now, when the pandemic was in its full swing and things had you had to make kind of drastic moves, did that propel you forward in a way that you think that that’s that you’re more optimistic about a future? Or was it something that you’re like, Oh, wow, this exposed some things that now we got to you know, I’m less optimistic how you know, now that as we’re hopefully coming out of it. I know you were mentioning some other challenges, but hopefully the the really, really bad. Stuff is behind us. Are you more optimistic that that change and disruption caused or are you more cautious?

Dr. Halee Fischer-Wright: [00:15:23] So let me put this. I think this says more about me than my organization. I love disruption. I love change. And what I mean by that is that I’ve always when I was a management consultant, one of the things I would talk about in the books that I’ve written, I talk about that crisis is a time of imminent change. It doesn’t necessarily have a negative connotation. The pandemic was a crisis and the I would say the muscles that we were building at MGM, the infrastructure that we had spent five years building. It was like the perfect timing, the perfect storm that we were able to execute at the onset of the pandemic. And so not to minimize anyone’s suffering or pain because of the pandemic, nor the financial consequences that we’re going to experience as a country for generations to come. But it was incredibly good for MGM. It was we were able to execute against everything that we had been planning for years and years in a very high velocity, high quality way. And it created new opportunities for us. So not only am I optimistic, I think the number one thing that keeps me up at night as CEO of MGM used to be, what is our relevance? And now the thing that keeps me up is how do we continue to deliver on the promise that we made during COVID?

Lee Kantor: [00:17:01] So it sounds like you were the perfect person to be leading the organization during that crisis.

Dr. Halee Fischer-Wright: [00:17:08] I don’t I don’t know about that. What I would say is during during the first eight weeks of the crisis, medical practices shut down across the country and we were suffering. A lot of it was forecasted that 60 to 70% of medical practices could have gone bankrupt had there not been a governmental intervention. So I don’t think there was an assessment of was I the right person? What I would say is we had everything already underpinned, that we could provide the real time information. We have an amazing advocacy arm that was able to really communicate the needs of health care in a way that could be heard. And so I think what I would say is I was proud to be the leader of an organization that was so influential during that time.

Lee Kantor: [00:18:12] And then now moving forward, what are some of the initiatives that you’re looking forward to implementing or that you’ve implemented that you’re looking forward to kind of continue to grow?

Dr. Halee Fischer-Wright: [00:18:22] Sure. I think one of the things that has come out of the pandemic well, first of all, what I’ve talked about for the last three years is there is not two years. There’s no trend in health care that showed up during the pandemic that wasn’t present before the pandemic. But what happened is the velocity dramatically increased. So now one of the things and I mentioned at the beginning of this interview is the rise of consumerism. We’re definitely seeing the impact of consumerism in how individuals intersect with medical practice. And we see that as a massive opportunity to recreate a patient care model that is more effective, more efficient and much more rural, higher quality and higher satisfaction, both for the patient and the provider. So we view that as a massive opportunity. Number two, we’re always looking at how we can decrease administrative burden. And as we look at how we can remove costs from the health care system, that administrative burden is really where we have our eyes fixated to decrease costs within health care. And then the other thing, which is very counterintuitive for for health care in particular, is we’re looking at how do we socialize a business model that is not a zero sum game. So traditionally, when you look at and you mentioned insurance, insurance contracts at the top of this interview, how we look at insurance contracts, is there winners or losers now that we’re moving into a much more value based care type compensation model for the future? How do we create win wins as opposed to winners and losers? And so we’re we’re excited to be at the Nexus. Of those conversations and really driving those outcomes for American health care.

Lee Kantor: [00:20:21] Now, are you seeing young people wanting to still be doctors and being involved in health care?

Dr. Halee Fischer-Wright: [00:20:27] You know, there it was funny, we were seeing a trend prior to COVID with a decrease in applications to medical school. We’ve now seen that increase over the last two years. So I think particularly this Gen Z that’s coming in is much more interested in being caregivers, whether that be allied health professionals or physicians, doctors, nurses, etc.. That being said, I think their expectations of what it means are very different than, let’s say, physicians of my generation, and we’re going to have to navigate those expectations as time goes on.

Lee Kantor: [00:21:07] Are you finding that those younger people are looking more like an American rather than just some subset of of what an American looks like?

Dr. Halee Fischer-Wright: [00:21:20] If you’re talking to me about D-ii. Absolutely. And that trend in medicine started about 20, 25 years ago. But I think medical schools are being much more thoughtful to really look for candidates that reflect the communities they’re going to serve.

Lee Kantor: [00:21:41] So what do you need more of? How can we help as we move into 2023?

Dr. Halee Fischer-Wright: [00:21:47] You know, I think my request is we’re looking for we’re always looking to expand our audience. And what I mean by that are people who are aligned with what we’re talking about. We want to talk with them. We want to share experiences. We want to learn from each other. So please feel free to reach out to our organization. And then the other thing that I always encourage people who listen to me in interviews is my request of person to person is to really be better health care consumers. I think that’s the next leg. I think we I mean, my generation Gen X was socialized that you had health insurance and health insurance will take care of you. I think as more and more costs for health care are being shifted to the patient, the one thing we haven’t done very well is educate people on how to be good consumers and be good stewards of their health care dollar. So my recommendation is to take that on. I think it will really enrich, not like I think it will. I use the term enrich. I think it’ll really enrich your understanding and improve your relationship with your health care provider. But I also think it’ll have a financial outcome that most people will appreciate.

Lee Kantor: [00:23:09] Well, if somebody wants to learn more about Magma, what is the coordinates to go there and maybe connect with somebody on your team?

Dr. Halee Fischer-Wright: [00:23:19] Absolutely. So you can reach us on our website at w w w dot MGM a dot com. And you can also follow us on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, and at gmail.com.

Lee Kantor: [00:23:39] Well, thank you so much for sharing your story today. You’re doing such important work and we appreciate you.

Dr. Halee Fischer-Wright: [00:23:45] Thank you, Lee. I appreciate your time as well and great questions.

Lee Kantor: [00:23:49] All right. This is Lee Kantor. We’ll see you next time on Association Leadership Radio.