Dumb Things Smart Dentists Do, with Dr. Richard Madow, The Madow Center for Dental Practice Success

Intro: [00:00:02] Broadcasting from the Business RadioX studios in Atlanta, it’s time for Dental Law Radio. Dental Law Radio is brought to you by Oberman Law Firm, a leading dental-centric law firm serving dental clients on a local, regional and national basis. Now, here’s your host, Stuart Oberman.

Stuart Oberman: [00:00:26] Welcome everyone to Dental Law Radio. We are back, back, back, back. We have an extraordinary guest today. I would say, one of the best practice consultants in the country that I’ve had the pleasure of meeting and consulting with in different areas. And our clients are happy when they use this particular guest. The one, the only Dr. Richard Madow today is going to join us and he’s going to embark on his experiences.

Stuart Oberman: [00:00:59] Now, a little background on Dr. Madow. So, he is the co-founder of the Madow Center for Dental Practice Success. And that is an extraordinary, extraordinary organization. And he will provide some information after our podcast today. And the interesting part is Richard has been labeled as the Leader in Dental Consulting by Dentistry Today, which I firmly believe. I’ve had the absolute pleasure of sponsoring some events that he’s been at. And I will tell you, the reception that he receives from his doctors is extraordinary. The presentation is spontaneous and hilarious. And I really am amazed that he has spoken and presented, probably, in just about every major city in the United States and Canada. And I know what he’s done for his doctors through the years, the careers, and they supercharged their practices, and they redefined who they are, and it creates success and and profitability, which is, sometimes, it’s very hard to do for our doctors.

Stuart Oberman: [00:02:14] And on a personal note, Richard is a lifelong award-winning musician. And for those that can see his guitar on the background there, I know he’s also talented. And I’ve actually have seen him play in his presentations, and I found that he was playing the piano this morning. So, not only is he a great consultant, but he is a published musician. And Richard, welcome. Welcome to the show today. Thank you so much for joining us. I know you are very busy.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:02:45] Oh, well, thanks so much for that introduction. That was really, really nice. I appreciate it, Stuart. And without sounding too much like we’re rubbing each other’s backs here, I want to congratulate you in what you’ve done over the years. Dentists, there aren’t that many times in our careers where we need to consult with a good lawyer by purchasing a practice, partnership agreement, selling a practice, et cetera, et cetera. And so many dentists make the mistake of going to a lawyer who’s a good lawyer but isn’t involved strictly in dentistry. So, what you’ve done for dentist, building your firm like that, taking the time to learn all the nuances and special things about dentists and what makes us tick, and how we’re so weird and crazy, and all those things just has been so responsible for your great success in helping dentists across the country. So, thanks for doing that. Congratulations on doing that.

Stuart Oberman: [00:03:35] Well, thank you for that kind information there, and it’s always appreciated. And I know that you’ve been deep in the industry for many years. And I know we could probably talk for seven days on what you’ve run across. But I want to cover a really main topic, and I know that you’re an expert on this area. I want to know point blank, dumb things that smart dentists do. We all have those clients that are absolutely brilliant, the leaders, but I want to hear what you have discovered. What are some of the dumb things that these guys do on a daily basis? And I know you could talk seven days on this, but I know you got some great things. So, tell me a little bit about what you’re seeing now out there.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:04:20] Yeah, it’s a great question. And look, I’ve done a lot of dumb things. Even though I’m no longer practicing, I had a practice for many, many years, built it up from actually a bankrupt practice that I purchased. So, it was below a scratch practice because the practice had debt when I took over and grew into a super successful practice, I’m proud to say, but I did so many dumb things along the way. And then, of course, I’ve been in, geez, hundreds and thousands of dental practices, spoken to tens of thousands of dentists and team members. And dentists are so smart. They’re so nice. They’re so cool. We really want to help people, but we’ve also done so many dumb things. So, since you asked, I thought of a few. And I’d love to share them with you and your listeners.

Stuart Oberman: [00:05:04] Yeah, tell me what you think? Give me five or six of the dumbest things that they’ve done.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:05:10] Okay, here’s one. Every time — I wouldn’t say every time, maybe 85% of the time when a dentist contacts the Madow Center about consulting, or coaching, or whatever the heck you want to call it, how can we make their practice better? One of the things they always say to us is we need more new patients. We need more new patients. It’s like a mantra, like a fix. We need more new patients. And new patients are great. And let’s face it, without new patients, your practice will plateau or go downhill.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:05:38] But invariably, every single time we’ll run a data analysis of their practice and find that sure, they can use some new patients, but they are losing patients more quickly than they could ever get new patients in the practice. These patients have been in. They, for some reason, responded to something you’ve done – a referral, a marketing piece, they drove by and saw your big, beautiful sign. They made the effort to recognize your practice – call, come in, have an examination. And then, they just drop off the face of the Earth. And practices have hundreds or thousands of these people who have fallen through the cracks, fallen into the black hole, walked out the back door, whatever you want to call them.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:06:23] And these are people who already know about your practice. They probably like you. They’ve probably already had an examination, maybe even treatment proposed. And our systems are letting them drop off the face of the Earth. And it’s our fault as dentists, because we don’t have the proper systems and protocols to track people and know how to call them to get them back in. And I don’t just mean calling and saying, “You’re overdue for your recall. Do you want to schedule?” That doesn’t work. We’ve got to really know how to do this. But we’ve got these pools of existing patients that have become forgotten people. And instead, we always want to know about the new patients.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:06:58] It’s so much easier and so much more cost effective to get these patients back in who have already come to our practice; yet, we tend to neglect them. Not as sexy maybe as getting a new patient in the door, but so much easier, so much more cost effective. That’s a dumb thing that smart dentists do.

Stuart Oberman: [00:07:14] Now, you have a whole program regarding this particular matter. The fixer, am I right? Well, you’ve got a whole program dedicated to this.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:07:23] Well, we do. When we work with a practice, we teach them exactly what to do and how to. And let’s face it, sometimes, you look at the data and say, “Well, this patient, they were in, whatever, four years ago. For some reason, they dropped off the face of the Earth, and we don’t think we’re going to be able to bring them back.” But we help practices identify who to start working with first, who are the best. And it’s usually people who are more recent. I mean, once somebody has been gone for four or five years, they’re tougher; although, they do come back. It’s hard to believe, but some people go five years between dental appointments, as gross as that sounds.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:07:56] But you need to have the systems, the protocols to get these people back in. And it’s usually treating them as a real person, not just sending some generic email or text, “You’re 18 months overdue, would you like-” But actually calling them, and chatting with them and saying, “Hey, we haven’t seen you for a while. Last time you were in, you were getting ready,” and I’m just winging this here, “But getting ready for knee replacement surgery. How’d that go? How are you feeling? It’s time you come back because when you saw Becky, our great hygienist, she noticed there were some areas of concern, and we really need to make sure that your teeth are healthy,” whatever. Just a personalized conversation with every single person, rather than some generic throw-spaghetti-against-the-wall-strategy. And that’s how we get people back into your practice.

Stuart Oberman: [00:08:40] Phones, phones, phones. Tell me about doctor not answering phones.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:08:46] Dumb thing number two. What a great segue, Stuart. I really appreciate that. Dumb thing number two. We do so much, and this is kind of shifting from patients who have slipped through the cracks to new patients, or maybe patients who you’ve contacted, and you have been in trouble — I mean, you’re having trouble getting a hold of them. And then, what happens? You guys are in Metro Atlanta, right? Where’s there like a dentist every square foot there? I mean, it’s the same where I’m here in Baltimore.

Stuart Oberman: [00:09:14] Six feet.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:09:14] Yeah, it’s unbelievable, isn’t it? And for some reason, somebody picks up the phone and decides to call your practice one day. It’s a great moment. And what happens? They call, and we don’t answer the phone. Now, in our live seminars, we used to do live secret shopper calls, and I’ve done tens of thousands of secret shopper calls personally. We would call dental offices live during our seminars from that area to see how they handled a potential new patient call. And we stopped doing them live, not because we embarrass somebody in front of a whole group of 200 people, and they started crying; not because we were sued for defamation because we embarrassed the dentist in front of their colleagues. Now, all of those things did actually happen, but that’s not why we stopped doing it. We stopped doing it live because 50% of the time, the phone wasn’t being answered during normal business hours.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:10:07] I mean, this is ridiculous. A potential new patient or patient who has been — you tried to bring that patient back into the fold calls your office and they get a voicemail. If you’re hearing this voicemail during regular business hours, it means we’re busy seeing other patients. No, no, no. Unacceptable. Think about it. A patient, a new patient or a recall patient, they’re nervous, they’re tense, they probably don’t want to be there, they’re looking for any excuse not to come in. They finally make the effort to call your office and they’re going to get a voicemail during normal business hours; totally unacceptable. Totally unacceptable.

Stuart Oberman: [00:10:44] So, you say a lot of seminars, you actually teach these guys how to answer the phones?

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:10:48] Oh, I’ve spent a ton of time during our live seminars talking about proper phone technique, absolutely.

Stuart Oberman: [00:10:52] Are they that bad at it? They actually have a lot of setup. I mean, you said 50%, that’s amazing. I mean, that’s-

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:11:01] I never said, don’t answer the phone at all. And once they do answer the phone, I’d say 90% of the people that actually answer do not know the proper way to get a patient off the phone and into the appointment book. They know how to get them off the phone, but not into the appointment book. So, yeah, there’s a lot that goes into it, for sure.

Stuart Oberman: [00:11:19] Well, a lot of times – and I want you to talk about this, and this may be on your agenda, but I hear the expression all the time, “Buy it and they will come.” What does that mean in a dental practice? I never understood that.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:11:35] Oh, well, that’s the third dumb thing that smart dentists do. But if you don’t mind, I just want to get back to the phone thing for one quick second. Then, we’ll talk about that because I care about this so much. Again, it’s probably an hour and a half to two-hour segment in our live seminars or webinars talking about proper phone technique, and this part of our discussion with this one thing. When a patient calls and says something that we don’t like, “How much is a cleaning? Do you take my insurance?” whatever, maybe we don’t like those particular questions, but they’re calling for a reason.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:12:05] And the reason is out of all the dental practices in your area, whether it’s Metro Atlanta or a rural area in Kansas where there aren’t that many dentists, they called your office because they want to come in. So, every call needs to be ended asking the patient to come in and not just saying, “Would you like to make an appointment?” but offering too good times. “We’d love to see you as a new patient in our practice. We can see you tomorrow at 3:30 p.m. If that’s not convenient for you. We’ve got Tuesday at 11 30 a.m. Which works best?” Again, 90% of these calls end with the patient never being offered an appointment. So, I just want you to get that in there before we move on to buy it and they will come, which is another favorite dumb thing of mine.

Stuart Oberman: [00:12:48] I hear that all the time, and I don’t know what that means.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:12:51] Buy and they will come. Well, when I say buy it and they will come, again, when a dentist contacts us at the Madow Center, it’s because they want to improve their practice. And also, dentists go to large dental conventions because they want to improve their practice. Down there in Atlanta, you’ve got to Hinman, one of the best meetings in the world. It could be the Chicago Midwinter, or the ADA, or maybe more than likely a smaller regional meeting. Every state has them and every state agency has them. And you go there to learn, and you go there to improve your practice. And one of the things we love doing as dentists because we love gadgets and we love touching things is we love going to that exhibit hall because all the latest and greatest equipment in tech is there, and it’s all shiny and fun. It’s also very costly.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:13:37] And one of the mistakes dentists fall into is they’re looking for ways to improve their practice, and they wind up getting sucked into buying a piece of equipment that’s going to put them in $80,000 to $100,000 worth of debt with the promise from this salesperson, this highly commissioned salesperson, that if you buy this object, people will flock to your practice. It’s all you have to do. Just buy this. And I’m not a Luddite. I’m not saying tech is bad. Tech is great. Cone beam imaging is phenomenal. Being able to have a crown made in your office the same day, if you’re skilled enough to do it, that’s a big if, but if you are skilled enough to do, it is incredible. But patients won’t come into your practice because you bought the latest and greatest technology no matter what these salespeople say. They’re saying buy it and they will come, but it’s just not true. It’s back to basics of providing a memorable experience.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:14:32] Phone tech, we were talking about. Treating every patient incredibly well. I mean, these are things we teach all the time. That’s what gets people to come into your office to stay, to get treatment accepted, to refer. It’s not because you’ve got the best cone beam technology. And again, I’m not saying you shouldn’t have this, it helps us practice better, but only if you can afford it, only if you’re not going to go into debt. Don’t think that this technology is going to bring you more patients because it just simply won’t. Now, you guys deal with — you see the down and dirty, you see people’s balance sheets. I’ll bet you’ve seen dentists who are in horrible debt. And it’s just so sad, isn’t it?

Stuart Oberman: [00:15:10] Well, you’ve seen this, and probably there’s only 10% of dentists out there that retire at 65. The rest of them have got to work, they’ve got to work, and they got to work, which is-

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:15:20] It’s scary, isn’t it?

Stuart Oberman: [00:15:22] It really is sad. It really, really, really. So, why do they buy this equipment? I mean, why do they buy that? Why do they buy a hundred-thousand piece of equipment? Why?

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:15:32] Well, first of all, it’s fun. Let’s face it, we’re dentists, we love doing fun things that are technologically advanced and that our patients will love. So, we buy because, in a way – and this is not a bad thing, I guess – it keeps our batteries charge. You’re a little burnt out, you’re sick of the mundane. Well, this is a cool thing. I can do more procedures. I can do my endo more accurately, whatever. That’s one of the reasons.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:15:53] But again, ask them to buy and they will come philosophy, which is not true, a lot of times we buy dental technology because we think it will enhance our bottom line. Our patients are going to say yes to everything we proposed. I always say, you talk about CEREC, which if you’re not a dentist and you’re listening, it’s a technology where instead of having a crown be to a point – and so you prepare the crown, then you send the impression to a lab, then the crown comes back, it’s cemented in two weeks later – a CEREC technology will allow you to do the crown same day because you make the crown right in your office.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:16:27] Well, this is fun, but it’s expensive. And as I always say, this is a patient talking, “I’ll only get that crown if you can do it in one day,” said no patient ever. Patients aren’t going to leave you or say no because you don’t have the latest technology. They’ll leave you and say no because you’re not making them feel special. You’re not providing a great patient experience. That’s why patients believe you’re running late all the time. You’re not getting the phone and it’s going to voicemail. That’s why patients leave, not because of the technology you have. So, again, nothing against outstanding equipment, and supplies and all those things in your office, but it’s not going to bring in more new patients. And as you said, Stu, only 10% of dentists is gonna retire at 65. Well, that’s sad. That’s pathetic. And a lot of times, it’s because of the tremendous amount of debt they’ve incurred. Let’s face it.

Stuart Oberman: [00:17:17] Yeah. Number four, give me your number four. Give me your number four.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:17:21] Okay, good. Yeah, let’s keep rocking here. This is fun. Something the dentists do all the time is they try to sell dentistry. They try to sell dentistry. And we take these courses, and I’ve taken them myself – not proud to say – where it’s like a weekend workshop, and we’re going to teach you how to sell dentistry. And by the time you leave here, your patients are going to say yes to all their treatment.

Stuart Oberman: [00:17:46] My patient coordinator is not selling enough dentistry, right?

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:17:50] Right, exactly. Here’s the problem – if my patient care coordinator could just sell more dentistry, everything will be great. So, you take her or him to this course, and then you come out, and you become a used car salesman, and you’re using these high-pressure techniques to get your patients to say yes to dentistry. I mean, it’s essentially like — and think about it, patients that come into your dental practice as a new patient, typically, they’re calling your office because they’ll say, like, “I chipped a tooth, I’m overdue for a cleaning. I’m having a little discomfort. I noticed my gums are sensitive and bleeding a little bit,” whatever, “I got new insurance.” These are the reasons that patients come into our office.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:18:28] And many times, they need a ton of treatment. They need $12,000 worth of treatment or $15,000 worth of treatment. And that’s great, and we can help them become healthy again. But these high-pressure treatment acceptance courses pretty much say, “Okay, you do the exam. You get the patient through your consultation room, and you tie them to the chair, and you browbeat them until they say yes.”

Stuart Oberman: [00:18:50] Yeah.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:18:51] That’s going against human nature. That’s not the way it works, and we’re trying to sell them on this dentistry. And it’s not about selling. It’s about establishing the relationship. It’s about having the patient trust you, and bond with you, and kind of become your friend in a way and say, “Well, you know what? I trust this office. I know they’re telling me the truth. I know it’s not because the dentist has five kids in private school. So, it’s for my health, and I’m going to say yes.” But when we pressure our patients to try to sell dentistry, well, every now and then somebody says yes, and you feel like you’re the greatest patient presentation master in the world-

Stuart Oberman: [00:19:28] But don’t patients pick that up, though? I mean, they pick that up, don’t they?

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:19:32] I totally agree.

Stuart Oberman: [00:19:33] They know when they’re being sold.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:19:35] I totally agree. The great thing about dentistry, or there are many great things about dentistry, but one of the great things about dentistry is that we profit the most when we get our patients in good dental health. It’s a true win-win. Other professions, they profit the most when they’re doing something that maybe isn’t so great for their customer or maybe isn’t so great for their client, but in dentistry, we make the most money when our patients are in the best state of dental health. So, that’s great. So, let’s use that to our advantage. We shouldn’t have to pressure people into saying yes to treatment. We should educate them about their dental health and get them to understand that, “Hey, if we do this, you’re going to be in better health.”

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:20:13] So, one of the things I always like to say is it’s not when the patient says yes, it’s where they say yes to getting their dentistry done. In other words, we shouldn’t feel like we have to get them to say yes in the first visit. What we should feel like is that we’re going to make them comfortable enough that when they finally do say yes, it’s in our office and not somebody else’s office because we scared the crap out of them. And it’s not about getting them to say yes to everything all at once. Some patients need a year, two years, three years or more to get all their treatment completed for financial reasons, for scheduling reasons, for whatever reason. So, we need to welcome that. We need to work with our patients to make things the most comfortable for them. And then, they’ll get their treatment done eventually, but they’ll get it done in your office and not someone else’s because we didn’t scare them away by selling, selling, selling.

Stuart Oberman: [00:21:04] That’s a great point. Almost too much selling can drive away patients. That’s a great point. I never thought about. That’s a great point.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:21:11] Yeah. It’s funny, I took this this fancy schmancy treatment planning course many years ago, and the guy kept-

Stuart Oberman: [00:21:19] When you were a young kid, right?

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:21:21] What’s that?

Stuart Oberman: [00:21:22] When you were a young kid?

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:21:22] When I was a young kid. Right, when I was a young buck. And they kept saying, “Well-” And I’ll do it with my bad Texas accent, but this guy had a strong Texan accent. He would say, “You got to ask somebody 12 times until they say yes.” And I’d be like, “Well, what are you talking about?” “Is this a treatment you would like?” “No, no, no. I can’t afford that right now. I’m not ready.” “Well, that’s okay. I’ve got 11 more times. Is this the treatment you would like?” “No.” And like, it doesn’t work. It’s high pressure. It drives people nuts, and they run away screaming. So, yeah, we can’t sell it. It’s all about trust. It’s really all about trust.

Stuart Oberman: [00:21:54] Give me number five. Give me a number five.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:21:56] Okay, number five. There’s an expression, I think it’s an expression in the South, and that is “Dance with who brung you.” And dentists tend to ignore this advice so many times. And I’ll give you maybe two main categories of what dentists do. Dentists will be frustrated or a little bored and burnt out, not really earning the amount of money they’d like, so they get distracted, like, “Oh, I’m going to invest in my cousin’s brewpub. That should be fun,” or “I’m going to sell this multilevel marketing lotion in my office. If I get five patients to do it, and they get five, they each get five, and then they each get five, and then they each get five,” despite the fact that mathematically this is impossible, “I’m going to be a millionaire selling overpriced hand lotion, and I can retire from dentistry.” And we get distracted.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:22:43] But dentistry is who brung us. I mean, there are a few things that we could do better for our career and have a great dental practice, and we get distracted by these other things. And that’s one way of not dancing with who brung it. But my other way, I see this much more too, is the dentist thinks, “Well, my practice is doing okay, but I could do a lot better if I opened up a satellite practice.” And I can’t stand that term. Like what the heck is a satellite practice? One practice kind of revolves around the other practice, and if you can grab it on the right day, that’s 30 miles outside of town.

Stuart Oberman: [00:23:15] I wanna scale. I wanna scale. I want to scale. Meanwhile, your main practice is-

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:23:20] Exactly

Stuart Oberman: [00:23:20] … is in the tank. So, yeah.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:23:22] Bingo! Bingo, Stuart! You’ve got it exactly. And then, what happens? The second you open your satellite practice, you’ve doubled your overhead, and you can’t be there to do all the production, so you’ve got to hire an associate. Now, you’ve tripled your overhead because you’ve got to pay this associate. And the associate’s not invested in it, they’re just biding time until they could do something better. And you’ve got more management headaches, much more overhead when you could be doing so much better if you just put all your efforts into making your one practice the absolute best it can be.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:23:56] And another example I just thought of too of not dancing with who brung you, when we’re not doing as well as we would like, we get distracted by doing these esoteric procedures. “I’m going to take this weekend warrior course and learn how to do this procedure,” when meanwhile, let’s focus on what most patients need. Patients need endo core and crown, they need scaling and root planing, they need implants and implant restoration. Let’s focus on not these esoteric crazy treatments, but focus on what patients need, doing it in one office, one office where we’re utilizing our space and our team to the maximum. That’s how you make a profit in dentistry, and that’s how you treat your patients well.

Stuart Oberman: [00:24:35] Yeah. How about one more?

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:24:39] You want one more?

Stuart Oberman: [00:24:39] Yeah, give me one more. Give me one more, because there’s got to be one more. There’s got to be one.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:24:47] I wouldn’t do this. Well, I had this in mind to do this the last one, because it’s something we started talking about in the beginning when I was talking about how Oberman Law Firm is such an incredible place because you specialize in working with dentists. And I’ll say dumb thing number six is not using specialized professionals. You’ve got to have what some people call their board of directors. Every dentist needs an accountant, an attorney, a financial advisor, a lease negotiator, a web designer-

Stuart Oberman: [00:25:15] A good consultant from Baltimore.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:25:17] Exactly. A great dental coach for your practice.

Stuart Oberman: [00:25:20] From Baltimore.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:25:21] I think the Madow Center the best. But yeah, you know, there are definitely times in our careers where we need to utilize the services of a dental coach or consultant. So, all those things. But so many times we make the mistake of not going to somebody who truly specializes in dentistry. “My best friend from college is an accountant. She’s a genius. I’ve never seen somebody to be able to recite the tax codes as well as her,” and she might be, but if her practice consists of 10 restaurant owners who are clients, and then somebody who does this, and somebody who does that, well, oh yeah, but it’s all the same. It’s all tax returns. It’s all P&L statements, right? No, it’s not. Dentistry has so many nuances that you’ve got to really be a specialist to understand,

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:26:07] “Oh, you know what? My nephew, he’s a whiz with computers. He’s going to do my website and SEO.” He might be a whiz with computers, but unless he knows all the dental terminology and all the things that are specific to dentists, he’s not going to do a good job for you. Accountants, geez, they need to know everything about dental practice – what your overhead should be, what your team should be earning, what different PPO plans can offer you, all these things. And unless your accountant, or your attorney or whatever specializes in dentistry, breaths it, works with a day in and day out, they’re not going to be as effective as somebody who truly specializes in working with us.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:26:43] And might it be a little bit more expensive to use a financial planner or accountant, et cetera, who specializes in dentistry? Well, it might be, but who cares because you’re going to be the huge winner in the long run, both financially, fewer headaches, all those things that we treasure, less time, more time efficient, all those things are going to come into play when you truly use a specialized professional. So, I think a great way to do the final dumb things, since I’m talking to a truly specialized professional on your podcast.

Stuart Oberman: [00:27:14] Well, yeah. It’s amazing is that a doctor will say, “Well, I got a little bit of trouble doing a root canal.” I’m like, “Why didn’t you send that out to endo? I mean, half the endos can even find to B2 canal.” I mean, it’s amazing that we say this all the time, stay in your wheelhouse. All of a sudden, I paid $6000, went to implant course; and now, on Monday, I’m a specialist, and and I can graft anywhere, anything, any time, any place. Now, I’m good.”

Stuart Oberman: [00:27:51] Well, I’ll tell you what, and I’m sure you could probably name 70 things that our guys do on the dumb things, but this is amazing. I mean, I hope that when our doctors listen to this, they will one make note of each thing that you said because it is amazing, it is practical, it is everyday usage. You guys teach it every day. You’ve been in the trenches. You’ve been there. You’ve done that. So, this is not only from a quote consultant that has never put a hand in a mouth. You’ve actually been there and done that. It’s so I think you’ve got a whole different perspective, which a lot of the consultants and business advisors and so on have no clue about. So-

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:28:39] Yeah, I like to think, Stu, there’s kind of a fraternity/sorority of dentists that we just have done some — we’ve been kicked, we know what it’s like to prep the dismissal of tooth number two on a patient that’s squirming, salivating and bleeding, we fought with insurance companies, we’ve let our teams. And there are some consultants out there, most who have never had this experience. How can they relate to it like we could? Just like using a specialized professional to have on your board of directors, your attorney, your accountant, your financial planner? It’s good to work with people who have been there, done that.

Stuart Oberman: [00:29:15] Well, I know you’ve been there, done that. And your reputation far precedes you, what you guys do on a daily basis. Richard, it is amazing, as always. Again, we could talk for seven days on this. I can’t thank you enough for, one, joining us on the podcast; and two, for what you guys do for the industry. I’ve seen it, I’ve been there, I’ve done that, I’ve listened, and you guys do a fantastic job. So, my friend, thank you for joining us and enjoy Baltimore.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:29:45] Thanks so much. It’s my pleasure. If anybody wants to send me an email, my personal email address is rich@madow.com. I love getting emails from dentists all across the world. If you want to see what we’re doing to help other dentists, just check out our website. It’s madow.com. I love to do a chat. We don’t charge for initial visit, so to speak. I’d love to speak with you and talk about what’s going on in your practice. It’s fun and we can always help. So, thanks so much for having me.

Stuart Oberman: [00:30:18] With that being said, you guys are putting on stuff all the time. What’s your next event? What’s your next podcast? When’s your next speaker?

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:30:26] Oh, geez. Well, thanks for asking. We do a podcast, it comes out two to three times a month. It’s called The Dental Practice Fixers. So, if you just go on wherever you get your podcasts – Apple, Spotify, YouTube. It’s on YouTube as well.

Stuart Oberman: [00:30:40] Where I can find your music too, right?

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:30:42] Exactly. Yeah, my music is on Spotify. You can look for Richard Madow. I got my stuff in there, but look for The Dental Practice Fixers. Or if you go to our website, there’s a little drop-down for dental podcast. You can check it out there. Speaking gigs are finally coming back after the pandemic, so I’ll be in a bunch of places, I think, in the next few months – Orlando, Long Island, Arizona, Montana. I hope I’m not forgetting anything but finally getting you out there and doing some speaking gigs again. So, if I come to your neck of the woods, that would be great. Also, I just got contacted by an office in New Jersey, a large group practice, and they want me to come in and do an in-service for their team. And I’m really excited about doing that. So, we do that too. Anything you want, we’re here to help.

Stuart Oberman: [00:31:25] I hear you, man. My friend, thank you, sir. Have a fantastic weekend. Happy holidays and we’ll be talking to you soon.

Dr. Richard Madow: [00:31:31] It’s great to be a guest on your podcast. Thanks so much, Stu.

Stuart Oberman: [00:31:34] Thank you, buddy.